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Support to Navigate the Justice System with Rachel Gibson

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“Many victims are experiencing polyvictimization. Multiple types of crimes are happening at once.” - Rachel Gibson Click To Tweet

Everyday people are falling victims to scams and fraud. Embarrassment and guilt can prevent people from reporting the incident. Not everyone is aware that there are resources available to help navigate the justice system. Today’s guest is Rachel Gibson. Rachel is the Director of the Center of Victim Service Professionals at the National Center for Victims of Crime where she works to further the mission by supporting and overseeing programs for victim service professionals, providing training and technical assistance. 

“Many victims of crime don’t know they have been a victim of a crime, but they know something isn't right.” - Rachel Gibson Click To Tweet

Show Notes:

“One of the tools you have is making a report.” - Rachel Gibson Click To Tweet

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Transcripts:

Rachel, thank you so much for coming on the Easy Prey Podcast today.

Thank you for having me.

Can you tell the audience and myself a little bit of background about who you are and what you do?

My name is Rachel Gibson and I am a director at the National Center for Victims of Crime. I work in the Center for Victim Service Professionals. I tell people jokingly, but really, that I work with tattoo artists to, say, nurses, judges, to court advocates, and everyone in between. Anyone who will support a victim of crime across their journey professionally, I work to provide technical assistance, training, resources, and help them make sure that they can better serve the victims and survivors that they work with in their community.

That’s awesome. How did you get into the field?

It was probably happenstance. My major in grad school was criminal justice, and I knew I was either going to go to law school or become a law enforcement officer. When those two things didn’t pan out, I needed a job. 

I had a friend who connected me with formerly known as the Florida Coalition Against Domestic Violence. They were looking for a technology safety specialist. She said, “You should apply. You like this topic.” I applied, got the job, and have been doing gender-based violence and victims-of-crime work ever since, having experienced victimization as a child and as an adult, as well as helping friends as they have navigated their own victimization, really wanting to do a career where I could be justice-minded and work to make sure that those who are experiencing the criminal justice system, get the support, get the resources, and get the justice that they want or deserve. 

The recourse doesn’t always mean a penal recourse, but whatever that recourse looks like for them, it could be restorative justice or transformative justice. However that looks like, I wanted to be a part of that process. That’s how I got started.

That’s awesome. I think a lot of the people that I interview are on the side of prevention and maybe a little bit of what to do after the fact. Unfortunately, we don’t have as many resources on how to recover, how to navigate that process elsewhere. What is the name of the entity again that you work for?

It’s the National Center for Victims of Crime. I love that you mentioned that prevention work because I tell people all the time we cannot have intervention strategies without prevention. Prevention can’t do prevention without intervention. We all play a part in the life cycle of someone’s journey through a justice process, so prevention and intervention must work together in order to meet those goals.

We all play a part in the life cycle of someone’s journey through a justice process, so prevention and intervention must work together in order to meet those goals. -Rachel Gibson Click To Tweet

Awesome. Do you know when the National Center for Victims of Crime was started and what the original mandate or premise for it was?

We were started over 38 years ago by the family of Sunny von Bülow, who was a New York socialite. That family experienced what many families experienced through the justice system, which was a failure, which was a system that they thought was meant to protect and help, and make sure that they got the justice that they deserved, and that system did not work for them. 

Out of that pain, they helped to find resources and came up with the National Center for Victims of Crime. Out of that work, we started doing a lot of policy work, helping to get the Victims of Crime Act made. We work to do a lot of policy changes. 

Now, we currently do a lot of really great work where we support not only victim service professionals and those folks who are helping and supporting victims, but also doing some direct support to victims through our Victim Connect Resource Center, which is a helpline, 9-5, Monday through Friday, where we provide chat, text, and talk to victims of crime.

One of the things that I think makes the National Center for Victims of Crime (NCVC) unique is that we serve all victims of crime. What does that mean? We recognize that many victims are experiencing polyvictimization, or multiple types of crimes are happening at once. 

Maybe I’m a victim of financial fraud, but I’m also experiencing intimate partner violence. Maybe I’m an older adult experiencing elder abuse, but also I’m experiencing identity theft or tax-facilitated crimes or stalking or trafficking. 

Often, many victims of crime don’t even recognize that they’ve been victimized but know that something has happened. Our Victim Connect Resource Center really does provide an open ear, doesn’t matter when, doesn’t matter the date, doesn’t matter the gender identity, doesn’t even matter if they think they’ve been a victim, but thinks something has happened. That Victim Connect Resource Center is really dedicated to provide them with help. 

Often, many victims of crime don’t even recognize that they’ve been victimized but know that something has happened. -Rachel Gibson Click To Tweet

Out of all of that, I say that the National Center does a really good job of connecting the dots in places where our more silo-based services may not have the ability or the expertise or the people power to do that. That’s what we bring to the field is bringing that lens, bringing the voice of victims who are often pushed out of services, pushed out of resources because they don’t fit the mold of what someone deems as a good victim, or they might be experiencing a victimization type that someone may not have expertise in. That’s really something that we do really well here at NCVC is making sure those victims’ voices are heard.

Are you providing the direct services or are you referring people out to specific entities that help with certain types of things?

Our Victim Connect Resource Center does some of those advocacy, safety planning strategies, really that first line of defense, really helping that person figure out maybe what’s happening during those conversations. Then, they will do a warm referral to local-based resources, should that person want that. 

We also have our DC victims hotline, which is a 24-hour hotline. That does a lot of the triaging for all the crime types that folks are experiencing in the district. Both of those helplines and hotlines are that initial first phone call that people may make, and they really do a good job of supporting that person when they make that call.

A very good listening ear to get them in the right direction.

Exactly.

What is the specific work that you are doing and your field of interest?

I think what makes our work really unique is that we tie it all together. I work with our victim service professionals. We have our Crime Victims Bar Association for attorneys that provide civil justice. We have our National Training Institute that does national training for service providers, and then our Tribal Resource Center that works with victims of crime who are from tribal communities, supporting their tribal programs. All of our programs are connected in that way. 

Out of the work that I do, I get to do what I consider really cool work, which is helping folks who do victim services. They’re the experts. They know what’s happening in their communities. My job is to really, again, support them and do the deeper dive that folks on the ground who are doing that day-to-day can’t do.

One of those projects is our financial and technology crimes initiative, where I work with several partners, one of which is the FINRA Investor Education Foundation, where we provide training to advocates. When I say advocates, again, it could be a victim advocate, it could be a banker, it could be a teller. It could be anyone who is in a professional capacity.

We provide them with training, technical assistance, and resource development. I have to put a plug in for our taking action guide, which is for advocates working with victims of financial fraud. Out of that work, I do a lot around supporting victims of not only just financial fraud, but exploitation, financial abuse, and making those intersections. I think that’s one of the biggest pieces that I have been focusing on is helping folks recognize the intersection.

Yes, I might be experiencing financial fraud, but if I am from a community of color, an older adult, a person living with a disability, that financial fraud crime could have significant impacts, not only just on my finances but my wellbeing, because so much of our life is tied up in our partners, our family members, our caregivers, our community. 

I spend a lot of time helping folks see that intersection as well, not only just with the financial pieces but also the tech-facilitated crimes piece, which is often connected now because most of our lives are happening online. So connecting it back in that way. 

That’s one of the big initiatives that I work on, as well as working with our Project Safe Neighborhoods, which is the Bureau of Justice’s assistance project, which is working with law enforcement and prosecutors around violent crime reduction. That’s another one where I think we spend a lot of time helping. 

Again, one of the things that we are working with is talking about trauma-informed services. When we say trauma-informed services, people use that language freely, but really thinking about how someone from start to finish can experience the justice system. 

When we talk about trauma-informed services, I always talk about that front door being open. What’s the front door? Not just the front door of your actual building, which if the accessible entrance to your front door is in the back of your office, that’s a problem. 

If the website that you have isn’t offered in multiple languages or someone’s screen reader can’t read it, that front door is not open. If when I walk into your organization and your organization is in a predominantly black neighborhood, yet all of your staff are white, that’s not a front door that’s open. That first initial contact can make or break how someone experiences that justice system. 

When we think about being trauma-informed, we have to think about it from start to finish. Our goal is to really help law enforcement and prosecutors understand that when victims and survivors navigate the justice system, most often than not, this is the first time their victimization is the first time they’ve come into contact with law enforcement or prosecutors. They’re going to have a lot of feelings, a lot of unpacked trauma that has happened. 

How do we help those first responders? How do we help prosecutors help someone understand that maybe their court case is going to take six to nine months, and we might have a continuance, we might have a delay, but that doesn’t mean that your case is not important. So really helping them navigate that. We are really taking that lens not only in that BJA project, but really in all the work that we’re doing to really help the system do better by victims and survivors.

I can really imagine the experience, particularly from the CSI and the TV cop show culture, that we think justice is swift, when reality is it’s a very slow-moving entity.

Yes, especially when Olivia Benson can solve a crime in 30 minutes, right? That’s one of the things that I think makes victim advocates so important, is that they normally will go through the process with the victim and the survivor. So helping them understand that the process is going to be slow.

That’s one of the things that I think makes victim advocates so important, is that they normally will go through the process with the victim and the survivor. So helping them understand that the process is going to be slow. -Rachel… Click To Tweet

Then when you bring in crimes like financial fraud, or technology when things are deleted, or things have to be researched, or money has to be traced, or you are one piece of a bigger white collar crime sting, and really helping victims and survivors understand that and navigate that. 

I tell people all the time. One of the tools you can have is making a report. A report doesn’t necessarily mean to law enforcement. It could be to the FTC. We actually have an NCVC link to FTC reporting. I tell survivors that maybe you don’t want to go to law enforcement, but you could report to the FTC.

When you make a report to the FTC, you actually may not get follow-up. But that does not mean that they are not listening and they are not taking that report and adding it to the cases that they’re working with. 

That reporting process, understanding what that looks like, can be traumatic for victims and survivors. That is really important as we help someone navigate what should be a trauma-informed justice process.

Is that some of the difficulty in getting people to report fraud and crime in general, is that the process is not clear, simple?

Yes. That is one of the major things. First of all, when we talk about financial fraud especially, there are a lot of behaviors that’s similar to intimate partner violence and sexual assault where we victim-blame right out of the gate. What were you wearing? Why did you stay? And why did you give them the money? Those are the narratives that people are hearing. 

If I experienced financial fraud, and I hear my community, my friends say, “Well, you were dumb. You gave them the money.” I’ve heard from many victims and survivors say that when they go to law enforcement, law enforcement has told them, “There’s nothing we can do because you chose to give them the money.” Many times you’ll hear that victims and survivors will not report because they don’t think they have an option, or they’re shamed for “falling prey” to that. 

One of the things that I really talk with advocates about is to say we can’t victim-blame. Fraudsters and people who choose to perpetrate these types of crime are really smart, and they’re looking for people. It’s not to say that someone can be easy, but it is to say they’re looking for folks who might be isolated. 

Well, in Covid times, most of us were isolated. It doesn’t necessarily matter the age because most people think that victims of financial fraud are older people. That’s not always necessarily true, but it is to say that they are often targeted. I think that’s what we have to talk about, is who is being targeted for these sorts of crimes and why, and then how do we help them identify it? 

In our training, we talk about, really, three target populations, and we’re bringing in more. One is older adults because we recognize that they are often seen as senile or maybe experiencing dementia and Alzheimer’s. Their friend group is dwindling, so they’re isolated. They’re not going to run things passed their family and friends because they don’t want to appear that they don’t have their mental capacity. So we recognize that they’re often targeted. 

We talk about victims of intimate partner violence. Ninety-nine percent of victims as reported by the National Network to End Domestic Violence said they will not leave their abusive relationship because they do not have the financial means to do so.

But then we tell people, “Well, just leave.” Well, it is expensive to live, and it’s expensive for people to leave. When they have children, houses, cars, and life involved, just leaving when there are financial ties can be life or death for someone. So talking about that target population.

Lastly, thinking about those who are repeat victims. I hear from folks all the time that say, well, how do we tell someone that they’re being victimized and they don’t want to believe it? That’s one of the struggles that I even struggle with. 

I have a close friend who is experiencing financial fraud, and I do this work. I’ve talked to the person, their family’s talked to the person, the police have talked to the person, but they have built a relationship with that fraudster online that they just feel like they’re in this relationship and that this person is true. 

So how do we help repeat victims who are being targeted, whose information is being sold to these lists to keep them on the list to, again, prey on folks who might be isolated from friends and family? Those are those target populations that we’ve been focusing on to get the word out and help people think through their strategies with supporting them.

Let’s dive in on that. For those that are repeatedly victims of financial fraud and this progressive conveyor belt of crime, how do you connect with a person in order to help them to see what’s going on?

I think that’s such a good point you made was that connection. One of the strategies that I talk about with folks is proving them wrong. How do you show that someone is defrauding them? 

I tell people if it’s a romance scam, run their picture through reverse image search. Google is probably one of the most powerful tools out there. Google them. If that phone number comes up, put that phone number and see if that’s a real, legitimate phone number or if it’s a spam phone number. 

A lot of our phones now have spam filters. I actually got a call the other day and it said, “Possible spam.” Now I know not to answer that phone call. So it’s really connecting to people who can help them see that this is a fraud. Ultimately, it’s really, again, giving them the tools to make the best decision for themselves.

Again, the similarities between intimate partner violence and this is that it takes an intimate partner violence victim seven to nine times before they’ll leave. I say the same thing can be true for folks who might be experiencing this crime. It may not be today, it may not be tomorrow, but we still have to give them that information and continue to work on them. 

When we think about working with folks who are most vulnerable, folks who might be older adults or living with disabilities, it’s thinking about how do we support them while also, again, recognizing their bodily autonomy, but also recognizing that sometimes we have to come up with strategies like power of attorney, like mandated reporting that have to be done. 

I’m not always an advocate for doing that because my goal is to say, “How can we do everything we can do before we take that autonomy from someone?” But that is an option and should be done with care and with the person where appropriate and where you can.

I’ve heard lots of discussions with aging parents, sharing with them, “Hey, I got this phone call and I almost fell for this,” as opposed to saying, “Hey, have you gotten this phone call? Why did you fall for this?” But really turning it around and sharing the experience as opposed to attacking with the experience, so to speak.

Exactly. I think the other piece is, are we safe people to report to? Will the person feel comfortable coming to you and saying, “Hey, this happened and it seemed weird.” 

I tell people all the time, I do this work, and often I have also been a victim of financial fraud. It doesn’t just mean that an older adult or a person with a disability is more likely to be victimized, but it is to say we all can be victimized. 

I like what you said, which is, “Hey, have you heard of this?” That’s one thing that fraudsters and folks who choose to perpetrate these sorts of crimes are banking on, is that you’re not knowledgeable. 

It’s funny. I talk about my parents who are older. One thing my mom is always doing is telling me the next fraud or scam. She is much more attuned than I am. She’s having these conversations with her friends and her family saying, “Hey, if your grandchild is calling from Mexico reporting they’re in prison, it’s probably not your grandchild.” 

It’s using your community and your peers because peer-to-peer engagement is really going to be important. I would be remiss if I don’t say peer-to-peer support groups where we work with the Cybercrime Support Network. They have found that folks who have experienced romance scams leading their peer-to-peer support group have helped other people. So it’s finding that network, finding those peers who may have also experienced it, to help you navigate it so that we can help the next people.

I think a big part of it is de-stigmatizing people when they’ve become a victim, like we talked about before. Not calling them stupid and it was their fault, but realizing the more people that share their stories of having fallen victim to a romance scam, it just makes it easier for the next person to report it, easier for the next person to say, “Yeah, I was feeling the same things. I saw the same things happening, but I just kept going,” or whatever the case was.

Exactly. Language is important because, again, how we talk about these sorts of crimes always puts it back on the victim. Instead, we have to put the onus on the perpetrator. It’s the person who chose to do it. 

Language is important because, again, how we talk about these sorts of crimes always puts it back on the victim. Instead, we have to put the onus on the perpetrator. It’s the person who chose to do it. -Rachel Gibson Click To Tweet

I’m not going to say, “Well, this person got victimized.” I’m going to say, “Someone chose to perpetrate this against someone.” We don’t blame a robbery victim for being robbed, do we? No. This is the, again, sorts of crimes where we have to really come from it with an empowerment lens and making it OK, making it safe for people to report. The more people who report, the more we can track what’s happening, the more that these crimes can go down, and people can get the recourse that they deserve.

The more people who report, the more we can track what’s happening, the more that these crimes can go down, and people can get the recourse that they deserve. -Rachel Gibson Click To Tweet

I think that’s one of the things that lacks in some ways is if law enforcement entities, whether it’s federal, state, local, community, don’t know that something’s happening or how big the problem is, there’s not a whole lot that they can do to stop it if no one’s reporting it.

Exactly. That’s the thing about reporting. When I do my training, I always say report, and then I put a little caveat. Reporting could be to law enforcement, but it could be to another entity because I recognize that reporting might not be safe for a lot of people. 

Reporting could be to the Match group if I’m experiencing a romance scam on one of their apps. They’re going to take that data, they’re going to collect it and go, “Hmm, we’ve seen this person being reported five, six, a hundred times. Let’s talk to our partners and see how we can do that.” So it could be to them.

It could be, like I said, the FTC, the Better Business Bureau. It could be to your bank. A lot of banks are tracking this. There are a lot of really good options for victims and survivors that doesn’t necessarily mean that a criminal justice response has to happen. For some victims, maybe they want a civil response. 

There are a lot of really good options for victims and survivors that doesn’t necessarily mean that a criminal justice response has to happen. For some victims, maybe they want a civil response. -Rachel Gibson Click To Tweet

I recognize, again, with that comes a privilege of having funds to do so, but that is another option. My job is to make sure that victims and survivors recognize they have as many options as they want, and they can take as many options as they want. They just have to know that those options are there. 

That’s what makes having really good partnerships important. I encourage folks who might be doing this work to sit on their multidisciplinary team or their financial abuse—they’re called fast teams, where it’s your judges, your bankers, your law enforcement, religious organizations, community organizations. 

Oftentimes, your tattoo artists, like I said, your banker, hairdresser, financial broker, are going to be the first people who are going to hear that a crime is happening. So making sure those folks understand what that crime could be is important as well. Having the right partnerships is another piece to ensuring that victims and survivors get access to what they deserve.

I was just thinking. I was talking to someone who someone in their organization was convinced to change a bank account number on something, so they ended up wiring money to a scam or sending money to a scammer instead of the intended target. They found out pretty quickly that like, “Oh, wait. We sent the money to the wrong account.” 

They went and contacted the bank, who shall, for the sake of the podcast, remain nameless. The specific bank is irrelevant. The person they talked to basically said, “Well, no one accessed the system illegally. They didn’t do it. You intentionally sent the money. The fact that you sent it to the wrong account isn’t our fault.” The person basically refused to transfer them over to the fraud department.

I was having this conversation. It’s like, the bank needs better training, like, “Yes, we understand that according to our policy, we as the bank are not going to make you whole for this issue.” But they should have at least said, “Let me get you over to the fraud department who can contact the other bank and let them know that the receiving account is potentially involved in fraudulent transactions.” 

It’s like, “I know our regulations and our process, and we’re not going to make you whole. But let me try to help you. While we can’t make you whole, maybe the receiving bank can. Let’s get you connected with them and see if they can get the money out of that. See if they can freeze the recipient account, do something before.”

Yes. We’re actually working with the American Bankers Association on just that because we recognize, again, that there is a difference. I’ll let the banker folks talk about that, but there’s a difference between a scam and a fraud, and, legally, what banks can do. But that does not mean we cannot get people connected to resources or get them connected to other help. 

Again, I think that’s where trauma-informed processes come in place because had that person stopped and said, “OK, I recognize that this might be traumatic, and I also recognize I may not be able to help them, but I know somebody who can, or I can at least try to get them connected to the right people.” 

That’s the work I’ve been doing with them. Again, I mention my parents. They actually know their banker by name. I have yet to be in my bank in years, but their banker sees them once a week, and will recognize if something is funny. 

So how do we help them identify? And have some compassion. Have people understand that someone who loses their money, it’s not even sometimes about the physical pieces of that, but there’s an emotional context to that. How someone might react in that situation could be aggressive or angry or sad, or all of the emotions. It’s imperative for folks to recognize what those things are. Leading with a trauma-informed or person-first lens in whatever provider lens we’re bringing, is going to be important. 

You say that, and I remember working with a survivor recently where a similar situation happened. She was a victim of trafficking and financial fraud. Someone had opened accounts in her name, bought a car in her name, forged her signature. It was really dark. It was one of those things where I’m like, “Oh my gosh. I’ve given her all of my resources and tools and strategies. I don’t know what else to tell her.” 

I remembered I had a colleague who worked at a bank. I called my colleague at the bank. They said, “Oh, have you thought about this? Wait a minute. I sit on this work group. Can I share the non-personally identifiable informational pieces with the work group and see what the work group says?” 

Well, the work group came back and I had almost two pages worth of resources, strategies, and tips, all because I recognized I needed to bring in my partners in this space, had reached out to another shelter, and had reached out to some folks at a loan organization. We all pooled our resources together for this survivor. They were actually able to flee safely. 

I think about your story, and then I think about that story where we talk about how the system has failed folks. When I say system, I don’t just mean criminal justice. I mean the institution of a system, and how two people experiencing these sorts of things have very different responses and outcomes.

It’s almost, we really need to, in the moment, think what is the best thing for this person at this time? It may not be going to law enforcement. It may just be listening to them, being that shoulder that they can cry on. At some point in the future, though, they’ll feel comfortable going to the justice system to report. Maybe that’s not what they want at the time.

I think that’s so important about these sorts of crimes because, oftentimes, people are in disbelief. I couldn’t have experienced it. Or no, I don’t know. I’m a little iffy. But when we start planting those seeds for them about, well, had you thought about this, or here’s these resources, it may not be today, it may not be tomorrow, but one of those days they’re going to come back around. 

Thinking about this reminds me of a survivor I worked with many years ago—had to be seven or eight years ago. Recently, I was at a conference and doing whatever. I get this phone number from a number I don’t recognize. Again, because I do fraud work, I’m not going to answer it. 

But something in my spirit was like, no, answer it. This woman had saved my contact information from seven or eight years ago because I had provided her with services. Those seeds had been planted seven or eight years ago. 

That doesn’t necessarily mean that the satisfaction, and I think that’s what advocates oftentimes struggle with, is the satisfaction of knowing someone was helped and they’re safe, and that they’re no longer in that situation. But again, seven to nine times it takes a person. They have to really want it for themselves. All we can really do is continue to support them. 

Our support doesn’t end after the first or second time. I support seven or nine times. If it’s the 10th time, I still support. It’s really building that relationship, and building that connection with victims and survivors, especially when money is involved.

And it’s showing them that you care about them as a person. Not that you’re, “I’m just here to get the stats from you and run along, but I want what’s best for you. I want to help you. I want to participate in this process with you.”

There've been many survivors and victims I’ve worked with that I’ve given them the resources. They’ve made decisions that I wouldn’t have made for myself, but they’re the experts in their lives, and they know what they need to do. I have to be OK with that. 

Again, I think that’s one of the things, especially having worked on a hotline, that’s one of the struggles I’ve always had. I want to make sure that the service that I’ve done, you are now safe. We can’t ensure that for them, but we can give them all of the resources. I talk about informed decision-making. They need to be able to make informed decisions, and that informed decision could be a process.

As we wrap up here, if you could tell the audience one or two more things, what would it be?

I’ll say this. Always have a strong password. Make sure it’s strong and make sure that you are never using the same password. Talk to your friends and family. If something seems too good to be true, it’s probably too good to be true. And know that there are resources and support out there. 

The National Center for Victims of Crime is one of those resources. But if we are not the right resource for you, we will make sure we can help you find it. Always know that there are folks out there that can provide you with help and support. I think that’s it.

The National Victims of Crime, what’s the website for that organization?

It’s www.victimsofcrime.org.

Got you. And the website for the Victim Connect Resource Center that we mentioned?

That is victimconnect.org.

Awesome. We know there’s the taking action guide that we’ll provide a link in the show notes. The URL’s a little bit long and complicated, and we don’t want to confuse people so they can easily get to that. 

One more thing as we wrap up here. Any emerging, cutting-edge trends that you’re seeing in the last couple of weeks or months that are new and people should be aware of?

We’ve been having a lot of conversations about AI and fraud, and what role that will play. Right now, we are able to decipher what’s real, what’s fake, but AI is making that much harder. 

We’re doing a lot of really good conversations with our tech company friends and our folks at FINRA about helping folks identify AI, as well as, again, really taking an intersectional lens and recognizing that victims from tribal communities, the LGBTQ community, from living with disabilities, and communities of color are often most impacted by crime, how do we provide them with support and resources? We’ve been doing a lot of work there as well. Those are the two things that we’ve been focusing on.

Awesome. If people want to connect with you on LinkedIn, where can they find you?

I don’t think I know my LinkedIn handle because I don’t go to it a lot, but I can provide it to you.

They can search for your name on LinkedIn if they want to connect, if they want to help out.

Definitely. NCVC has their own LinkedIn, so follow us on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, and you’ll see all of our resources. I would have to say this because our comms team would be angry if I didn’t. If you join our newsletter, you actually get access to free webinars, training, and resources. So go on over to any of our social sites and you can find us there, or go on victimsofcrime.org.

Awesome. Rachel, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Thank you for having me.

 

 

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