Post Scam Guidebook

Fraud usually gets talked about in numbers like how much money was stolen, how many people were affected, how many cases got filed. But behind every one of those numbers is a person who’s been blindsided, manipulated, or left trying to rebuild trust in others and in themselves. This episode shifts the focus back to those human stories and the fight to protect them. My guest, Freddie Massimi, has spent more than a decade helping scam victims find both financial and emotional recovery, bringing empathy and understanding to a field that too often feels cold and procedural.

As a certified financial crimes investigator and program manager at The Knoble, Freddie has made it his mission to bridge the gap between institutions and individuals. He shares the heartbreaking and hopeful moments that define his work including one phone call that saved a life. Along with how that experience changed the way he thinks about what true fraud prevention really means.

Freddie also opens up about The Knoble’s Post-Scam Victimization Guide, a collaborative, trauma-informed resource designed to help victims regain control of their lives and prevent re-victimization. From crypto scams to romance cons, he explains how these schemes keep evolving, why empathy is still one of the best tools we have, and how every fraud fighter can make a difference simply by listening and responding with humanity.

Show Notes:

• [00:40] Freddie shares his background as a certified financial crimes investigator and program manager at The Knoble.
• [01:40] A look back at Freddie’s early path into criminal justice and how empathy shaped his fraud-fighting approach.
• [03:07] The story of a Tennessee widow who lost $300,000 in a pig-butchering crypto scam.
• [04:30] Freddie’s emotional account of saving a victim’s life and how it reframed his mission to protect others.
• [07:42] The rise of collaborative fraud-fighter networks and Freddie’s work leading The Knoble’s post-scam initiatives.
• [08:11] How The Knoble unites financial institutions, law enforcement, and NGOs to address “human crime.”
• [08:58] Development of the Post-Scam Victimization Guide, a trauma-informed resource for banks and fraud teams.
• [10:39] How financial crime has evolved from simple check scams to complex digital exploitation and trafficking.
• [13:01] The need for faster, more transparent information sharing between banks and law enforcement.
• [14:04] What makes the Post-Scam Guide different including actionable steps, empathy-driven language, and real-world tools.
• [15:00] Sextortion cases, Gavin’s Law, and how shame and silence compound the harm.
• [18:30] Practical tools in the guide, including hotline numbers, QR codes, and scripts for supporting victims.
• [20:20] How to talk to romance scam victims with compassion including using questions that spark reality checks, not judgment.
• [22:00] Why shame keeps scams underreported and how trauma-informed communication changes outcomes.
• [23:19] The role of technology in scams: remote access, malware, and how scammers exploit smartphones and computers.
• [24:36] Shoutout to Kitboga for his cybersecurity tools and awareness campaigns against scam call centers.
• [25:22] Why elderly victims remain the most vulnerable and how education can empower prevention.
• [27:24] The double victimization cycle like when scammers return pretending to recover lost money.
• [30:00] Freddie’s real-world example of helping a victim secure their accounts and recover identity.
• [32:50] How banks can adjust fraud detection systems to catch hidden patterns of exploitation.
• [34:30] Spotting red flags in gift card purchases and why speaking up can literally save lives.
• [36:31] Freddie’s advice for anyone who suspects they’re being scammed: stop all contact and secure your accounts.
• [37:06] The importance of documenting everything and reporting through IC3.gov and law enforcement.
• [38:30] Emotional recovery and community support are just as vital as financial recovery.
• [41:00] The biggest mistake victims make after being scammed is staying silent out of shame or fear.
• [41:40] Freddie’s story about protecting his own grandmother from IRS and WhatsApp scams.
• [43:00] Common text-message scams and why you should never reply, even with “wrong number.”
• [44:48] How to access The Knoble’s free, vetted Post-Scam Victimization Guide.
• [45:30] Where to connect with Freddie and The Knoble’s wider fraud-fighter network.

Thanks for joining us on Easy Prey. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and leave a nice review. 

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• The Knoble
• Freddy Massimi – LinkedIn

Transcript:

Freddy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Thanks, Chris. I'm really glad to be here. Thank you for the opportunity.

Definitely looking forward to this. Can you give myself and the audience a little bit of background about who you are and what you do?

Absolutely. I spent my career fighting fraud and supporting scam victims. One thing that I've seen again and again is that the damage doesn't stop when the money is gone. It's a little bit about what the mission is here today. A little bit about what I do is I have worked for BB&T and now Truist Bank since 2012 as a fraud fighter all the way from a debit card specialist, all the way now to an AML Financial Crimes Technology Specialist.

I do training through a couple of organizations, white papers, and program managers. I get my hands deep in the nitty gritty, as I call it, in every type of typology that you can think of. I graduated from Barton College in 2009, a little small school in Wilson, North Carolina. I was a criminal justice major. I met the love of my life, Alex. Today is actually our 14th wedding anniversary.

Congratulations.

Thank you. We have a son named Henry. He's four, and he is our world. He is the true reason. I do what I do just to make him proud.

Awesome. How did you get into the field of fighting fraud?

I remember when I came to college, I wanted to be a biology major. It was going to be a good career. There was going to be good money in it. I always joke and I saw the syllabus the first day. It was 50 pages long. When we went to a career fair, it was called Welcome Back, Barton Day, and every single major was out there. There was criminal justice.

The sign said there was more to criminal justice than being law enforcement. “OK, let me check it out.” I highly respect police officers, law enforcement. They're very underpaid and lack of resources. That is not what I'm trying to say here. When you are a criminologist looking at the whole box, making sure that you were the missing puzzle piece as a fraud fighter, if it's being a SAR writer, if it's being a person that is talking to a vulnerable individual, being the voice of them when they can't speak, that is truly what being a fraud fighter is—going above and beyond until you can find that missing piece.

Is there a story that motivates you when you feel unmotivated?

Yeah, absolutely. There was a client. She was from Tennessee. She was a victim of something called a pig butchering scam. If you've never heard of a pig butchering scam, it's exactly how it sounds. It's fattening a pig up, slaughtering it until there's nothing left. It's not about a farm animal. A lot of people hate that term. I hear, “Oh, I don't like that term; you should call it financial grooming.” I'm like, “No, it is exactly what it is.”

What happened was that she lost her husband, so she was a widow. She met this guy online and gave over $300,000, Chris, to this individual over a six-month period. What happened was that he convinced her to invest in something called Kraken Exchange. It's a cryptocurrency platform.

This is not bashing Kraken Exchange because of what she was investing and what she thought was real. It was actually a fake exchange that the fraudsters have created, put the money in there, and they were giving her fake statements, and as we all know, is what a mule is. A mule is pretty much a middleman. It's a pass-through account of going from one person to another to another to another. There was justice. There was, I believe, $1.2 million between multiple individuals where this individual that was scamming people just like this client.

Here's where it gets real, Chris. I remember calling her. I got an incident report from the branch. I picked up the phone and I said, “Hey, this is Freddy with Truist Bank, the Vulnerable Adults Unit. I wanted to talk to you about X, Y, and Z of these transactions.” It was ATMs, it was wires. It was money taken out from 401(k)s, IRAs on her life insurance policies. She said to me, “If you didn't call me today, I was going to commit suicide. My family doesn't talk to me, my friends don't talk to me.” Sorry, I always get emotional with this because I think about wondering if it was my grandmother that was going through.

I immediately kicked into not Freddy the fraud fighter, but Freddy the person that needs to be empathetic and talk to people that's vulnerable. I call law enforcement in our home city. I said, “Hey, here's the situation. I need you to go do a door-knock.” It's called a live-and-well check. When they got there, she had urine all over her, she had feces all over her. She did not have a single light on in the house because she couldn't afford it. She didn't have any utilities. The good news is they got her adult protective services. She got the help she needed.

The caveat to it is, and the feel-good story is I check her name on Facebook every now and then. It looks like she's thriving. Do I think that she would not be here if I didn't talk to her that day? I don't know, but I'm so glad that I called her because a lot of times people need to realize that those fraudsters or scammers on the other line are sometimes being trafficked. They're being forced. They're being compounds in Southeast Asia. They're telling these individuals that are promised great jobs, “If you don't make this amount of money today, I'm going to kill your family.”

Please, when you look at both sides of the story, fraud fighters listening to this, look at the whole picture, realize that sometimes there's victims on both sides. It's not a trafficker and a victim, it's not a suspect and a victim. Sometimes it tells a story. What I'll say is follow the money until you get to that missing puzzle piece.

Yeah. Where the money ends up going, not who it passes through necessarily.

Yes, exactly, Chris.

Are there organizations of like-minded fraud fighters that are coming together to try to change the way fraud fighters communicate and interact with victims?

Absolutely. One thing I'll say is that this is a great introduction. One thing that I helped develop and I was the program lead was the post-scam victimization guide through The Knoble. The Knoble is a whole bunch of financial service professionals that collaborate. It's law enforcement, it's regulators, it's non-government organizations joining forces to lead and innovate more effective ways to fight human crime.

Human crime, people ask, well, what is it? It's human trafficking. It's fighting crime against individuals that are trying to traffic humans and move them. If it's labor trafficking, if a human smuggling, human trafficking is your force, your fraud, and coercion.

The guide that we help create, it's trauma-informed, it's step by step, full of practical tools as a fraud fighter's playbook. It's going to help people recover mentally and prevent further harm. Special shoutout, I can't forget this, to Ally Bank for sponsoring the guide. It was just amazing for all these fraud fighters.

There were over 50 fraud fighters that came together once a week to help develop the guide. There are screenshots, there are scripts, there's what to tell a victim of each individual typology of a crime. I've helped guide them of what to say so you're not missing the mark. The worst thing that you want to do as frontline staff at a bank is just give a person a pamphlet. “Hey, you're a victim of a crime. Knock it off.” That kills me because you are hurting the reputation of your organization if they come back and are committing fraud themselves, and they're not realizing that they're being used as a mule over and over.

That's why I volunteer myself to actually go to security meetings of branches. “Let me talk about the different types of fraud that we're seeing up here in the financial crimes unit.” I want to learn what they're saying because sometimes they're not telling us everything. You take what they see, they're taking what we see, and we develop a training that is role playing. It's going really well, Chris.

How has that changed from the bank side from five or 10 years ago? How did banks interact with fraud victims then?

A lot of it is lack of resources where you're having…back then it was just check fraud. Client gets mailed a check in the mail. They use a portion of the check before the funds return if it's ultra fictitious or if it's counterfeit. Now, you're dealing with the big boys. Like I say, you're dealing with faster payments, which is Zelle, your Venmo, your Cash App. You're then dealing with wire fraud. You're then dealing with cash-in in a different jurisdiction and a geographical area with withdrawals coming from completely different states with its indicators of account takeover. It's indicators of identity theft.

It's indicators of human trafficking, where you have an 18-year-old female that is forced to open up an account, the account is charged off, and then when she gets her life back together, which we all hope at 22-23 years old because that's usually the age range where the pimps just throw them out. “We don't need you anymore. You're a little older and we need some fresh blood,” as they call it.

They just don't know how to deal with victims, because what's happening is that they go to try to open up an account, and they realize that an account has been opened in their name without them knowing. They apply for a car loan, they apply for a mortgage, and their credit score is at 300-400. “Wait, you have an account at so-and-so financial institution that you still owe $10,000 in credit card debt. Your account was charged off for check fraud,” and they just don't realize.

There are legal resources out there and attorneys that take these cases pro bono to help these victims, and I love it. A lot of times, I will pick up the phone, call the contacts that I have, and say, “Hey, here's the situation, this is what happened, do you think you're able to help them?” Pretty much every single time, “Yes, send me their contact information and I'll reach out to them.” That is a true fraud fighter network. That's what The Knoble is about, is using your resources to your advantage to call and say, “Hey, is this check good? Is this account open?” It's like an inner 314(a) or 314(b) process for fraud fighters.

314(a) and 314(b), to listeners, if you're not in the space, what in the world is that?

It's an info sharing. 314(a) comes from law enforcement. 314(b) is bank to bank. I think the system is flawed, I'll say it. I think we need to do better. We shouldn't have to wait six weeks to find out if an account is opened, if it's closed, or who's on the account, because a lot of times, Chris has an account at Bank of America. All of a sudden, his email changes and his phone number changes on the account. He doesn't have alerts set up. He then finds out that Freddy has added himself as a secondary, and then I'm going to open up a DDA that you don't realize that I'm only the primary on. I'm taking money from your HELOC that you have going to transfer it to the DDA. I'm going to write myself a check, and you don't realize it until it's too late.

Yeah. The timelines of things can be really scary.

Yes.

What makes this guide different than ones that have already been published by other entities?

Absolutely. Two things, it's actionable and it's trauma-informed. I actually wrote something directly in the guide, and I'm going to read it to you. This isn't another awareness for sure. It's hands-on. It gives financial institutions, fraud fighters, and advocates the scripts and tools they need. It also gives victims immediate clear steps, what to do first, where to report, how to secure the accounts, and who to call for real help. A lot of these guides that are out there, they're just basic one-pagers. This is what you need to do.

That's fine and dandy, but this is a detailed 56-page guide. It is only available to Knoble members. Go out to theknoble.com. Go out to the member center. If you're a part of a financial institution or law enforcement, sign up. You're able to get the guide after we vet you because we want to make sure we're not handing it over to a fraudster, that's not going to go on the dark web. It's an amazing organization that I have been a part of from the very beginning.

I assume the training and the experience that you get just keeps continuing to feed back to The Knoble members, correct?

It does. The webinars, the guides, the white papers. I think it's Thursday talks and it's on a different typology. I think one time it was about, if you're not familiar on this call, listeners, sextortion. Sextortion is a very hot topic. That was one of the last webinars that they did. Paul Raffile. If you haven't checked out Netflix, there's a couple of ones I recommend for romance scams, Love Con Revenge. That's about the Tinder Swindler.

Paul Raffile is an expert on sextortion. I'll never forget one of the guest speakers. There was a conference called Fraud Fight Club. Fraud Fight Club was four fraud fighters, five fraud fighters. Right after that, one of the senators or, I believe, congressmen of South Carolina, they called it Gavin's Law. The room was quiet, Chris, and he talked about how he got home from a speech that night. His older son walked right by him without saying a word. He said, “I love you, son. Have a good night.” All of a sudden, he heard what sounded like a bowling ball falling from the top shelf. His son committed suicide, Chris.

As a parent, this hits hard and I'll tell you why. He was on Instagram, and he got a whole bunch of messages. If you have not looked it up, look it up very close, you all listening. It was the Yahoo Boys messing with him. He sent a picture to he thought was another individual, and they give the same type of script. “If you don't send me money, I'm going to go ahead and expose these naked pictures that you sent to your friends and your family.” With his dad being a politically exposed person, a PEP, if you haven't realize what that is. That can ruin the reputation.

That is justice. That is why we do what we do as fraud fighters, to make sure individuals are protected. They now have a FinCEN advisory on sextortion that you can hashtag it in a SAR that it is getting to the proper resources with law enforcement, but we cannot wait when something happens like that. If you file a SAR for sextortion, if it's wire fraud activity indicative of human trafficking, which the good news is you need a $0 number to file a SAR for human trafficking. You don't need the $5,000 for a suspect or $25,000 victim. You can call up your field office. “Hey, I just filed a SAR for human trafficking. Here's the BSAIT number. I think you should look at it.” You can't tell them the detail because of info sharing laws, but you need to get it on the radar sooner than later.

What are some of the tools that you're giving fraud fighters as part of this guide?

Absolutely. We're giving them resources first. We're giving them direct links and QR codes to the National Elder Fraud Hotline, ic3.gov, reportfraud.ftc.gov. People that are a part of the guide, we put them in there. We put Operation Shamrock. We put Adult Protective Services, of course. We've put lovesaid.org, if I'm not mistaken. That's Ayleen Charlotte, was one of the victims of the Tinder Swindler and Cecilie. She was another victim of the Tinder Swindler, and they are great advocates. You just have great leaders from credit unions, from law enforcement. We have people from the CIA, we have people from the FBI, US Secret Service, human trafficking task forces.

The other tools that we're giving, we're giving them typologies. They are hot in the market, where we're giving them direct contacts to banks so they're not having to send emails all over the place and trying to get contacts. We're giving them different types of wording to use as they're talking to these victims. What we want to do, Chris, is we want to flip the script on them and ask the client because a lot of times, I said, “Well, this is the love of my life. He would never do this to me.”

You have to flip the script on them and say to them, “Well, ma'am, let me ask you this: How are you going to pay your mortgage this month? How are you going to tell your family?” A lot of times, when you use that warning, it gets through to them. I remember someone telling me, “Oh, he's in the Nigerian army. He is an army sergeant.” Now, did I want to tell her, “I hate to break it to you, ma'am, there's no American Army in Nigeria”? No. I just said, “Well, ma'am, unfortunately, it appears that you have been a victim of a romance scam. It looks like you've sent $60,000 within a week.”

I said, “Can you please tell me a little more?” She said, “Yeah, he couldn't have an account so I had to send it to his supervisor, and then I was going to get money from an administrative assistant.” That administrative assistant was another victim of a romance scam. They were sending money back and forth.

The feel-good to this is that the victims both met in person because they were in the same town—go figure. That usually never happens. They talked about everything that particular individual did to both of them. They did the same thing. I need the same amount back and forth. They open up an accounts in their name.

They give them the story I always say. If you are a banker listening to this and they give you the story of, “Hey, I want to open up this home equity line of credit for home renovations for $25,000,” that's the most common amount, and they then say, “Can we give you an official check?” Because now he needs cash that a lot of times is indicative of they are a victim of some type of scam.

Yeah. In most cases, you're not paying your contractor with cash.

No. If I'm a contractor, all right, that's amazing.

I don't know if I want people paying me cash. Now I've got lots of cash that I've got to figure out something to do with.

No, I don't want to carry that cash around.

Exactly. How has that changed? I know there's the counterfeit scam and counter-fraud space. There's really been a shift in being more trauma-informed and communicating with people in a different way. Are these new techniques helping to prevent as well as helping to get people to report?

I think me and you both know it's going to be extremely and grossly underreported because of the shame. People just don't want to report it. It's becoming a little easier to report because of these little babies right here. They're also a thorn in our side, because it is so easy for someone to go to a website that they then get redirected. There's a virus on their phone, especially Samsung devices.

Apple devices are a little harder to get into. Samsung devices are the most susceptible to viruses. They then go on, they then tell us, “Oh, someone remoted into my computer. They said I had a virus on there. They remoted in and they put malware on there.” Most banks tell them, “Hey, just go to Best Buy, just go to Staples, and get it removed off your computer.” Here's the issue with that. That malware is not going to get off your computer like that. You need to install software where there's a remote access blocker.

If you look up Safr Care, I think it is. One of our really cool people doing things in the industry, his name is Kitboga. If you look up the Kitboga Show, I met him at Fraud Fight Club. I actually had him on the working group, and he showed us his AI robot. I think it's $4.99 a month that you can actually get the blockers of malware and remote desktop on your computer. This is a shoutout to Kitboga because he is doing amazing things in the industry. He is exposing scammers. He is making sure that these call centers are being exposed to what they really are.

Yeah. I think the product is Seraph Secure.

That's where it is. Sorry. I just couldn’t…but he and John are just doing amazing things in the industry. That's probably one of the best products I've ever seen when it comes time to blocking remote desktop on someone's computer. What's happening, Chris, is that they're getting it removed from just a regular Trojan malware on Staples or Best Buy, but they're not blocking the proper thing. When someone logs into their online banking and that's exposing their new accounts, that keystroke virus is still on there, and then they're being compromised again.

It's an inconvenience for clients. I'm 39 years old, and I don't like even going into the branch unless I absolutely have to. I think the younger generation is more technology savvy, but you have the elderly that still want that face to face. That's who we need to protect.

I'll go back to the guide. It's packed with resources. They aren't just websites that are listed in here. The main thing here is that there are lifelines. There are lifelines to helping people and connecting victims to advocates. It will walk them through recovery.

I'll say this. Are you going to get your money back? There is a slim chance, but mentally you are going to recover from this. There's help, there's resources. Talk to people. Don't hold it in. Fraud fighters are here to help you fight these criminals.

Yeah. I think it's really important to reemphasize the likelihood of getting money back is extremely low.

Yes.

I had been talking with Kitboga. That is the second crime that happens. The same group of people who stole the money then come back and say, “I can help you get your money back. We've got this special way of working with law enforcement, the banks, and the cryptocurrency exchanges. We'll guarantee you. You just need to pay this fee and we'll get everything back.” It's just that revictimization.

Yeah. Unfortunately, I'm not going to say they're falling for it, but sometimes their blinders go on when they are a victim of fraud. They just want help, they want to get their money back. Then there are people out there that are taking advantage of the advantaged.

Yeah. People are desperate and they're looking for hope, and someone is fictitiously offering hope and a solution to their problems. It's human nature. We're looking for someone that can help us. Hey, here's this great person who says I know exactly what you're going through. I know it's horrible. They've listened to the playbook. They say all the right things and it's just another con, unfortunately.

It is. I'll give you an example. I was on the ball field the other day of my son and I get a text message. “Hey, this is so and so. I got your number from a good contact with me at Truist. They said that you fight fraud.” One, it made me feel good because I'm a trusted contact. Secondly, she goes, “Look, I called the number on the back of my card. I kept getting rerouted to an individual overseas. I just want to make sure it's legitimate.” A lot of times, yes, banks are going to use third parties to talk to these individuals.

Knowing what I know, I told her, I was like, “OK, what happened?” “My mom gave the Social Security number. They gave the user ID and password. They allowed to remote to the computer.” I was like, “OK, first things first, is your online banking blocked right now?” They said, “Yes, they locked it down. No one can get into it.” Perfect. I say, “OK.”

The next thing you're going to do is, “What happened?” She goes, “There were four transactions on the account that are pending right now. They're all ATM withdrawals.” I was like, “OK, perfect.” I said, “You can't file a claim right now, but once they post, we're going to file a claim. FDIC rules. We'll get you that money back.”

“Next, we're going to go ahead and call Equifax right now and put a credit freeze on your credit report. The good news is it's going to take care of all three—Equifax, Experian, TransUnion.” I said, “The best part about this is that since you are a victim of identity theft here, we're going to go ahead and get you a police report filed and then you get free ID guard for two years on the bank's time.” I think that just eases people because money moves so fast, and fraudsters are five steps ahead of us, Chris, that sometimes it's just hard to keep up.

What this guy does is trying to prevent the revictimization of people being a victim of a scam. That type of fraud, the first party, it's hard to prevent because you're going to have your debit card compromised. That's why I tell people, “Use your credit cards as much as you can at gas pumps.” If you have Visa or anybody else listening in with the exchange rates, I'm sorry, but from a safety issue, let it be the bank's money and not your money. Hopefully you're a little more protective. Use Apple Pay or use contactless payments. That way, you just have that little extra layer of security.

I have fraud alert set up for one penny for everything I spend. I've been doing this for almost 14 years. I'm very anal when it comes time to any type of money. I was like, “Wait a minute. What is this? One penny?” And then boom, $5 and then $50. Sometimes it's like the gas stations. They have $175 hold fee, and then your gas goes on. I'm like, “What is this?”

Yeah, it's the same way I am. When I travel, I use a very specific card for when I travel, and it's the only thing I use. Even if I'm local, I never use a debit card. I always use a credit card because I know at least, I've got a certain amount of time before it impacts me financially, directly. If it's a debit card and they're yanking straight out of my bank account, I believe the bank will make it right, but it's going to take time to be made right. I've got bills to pay. I've got a mortgage. We've all got those regular bills, and I don't want to risk the interruption of those bills with a, “We'll take care of this. It'll take three-to-five days.” “The rent's due tomorrow, I can't wait three to five days.”

Of course.

As part of this, are there best practices for banks in how they deal with transactions that start to look suspicious, or is that within banks? They're doing it themselves, this is really for the fraud fighters?

It's mostly for the fraud fighters, Chris, but I always say for banks is that whenever you build your system-based fraud rules, you're going to have to change your thresholds more often than you want. I know it's costly because every time you change a rule, you have to pay money for it. If you have stuff alerting for $50 and not $500, not both, or where you have hotels mixed with airlines that are mixed with wire transfers to a high-risk jurisdiction, and then you're adding in your Airbnbs, your Vrbo, your Sally Beauty Supply, to the naked eye, that's just a college kid or a business person traveling.

From a fraud fighter perspective, that's activity of human trafficking. That's activity of scam. I always tell people, if a client always look at their pending transaction as, well, it's because their pending transactions are not going to show up on posted. What I mean by that is if you see 500, 100, 500, 100, and it's places like Winn-Dixie, Publix, Food Lion, Walgreens, CVS, that activity is indicative that they're buying gift cards.

Let me go into this; another story for you. It always grinds my gears when I tell this. I was in a pharmacy, and I overheard somebody talking on the phone to an individual like, “All right, buy a green dot. Is this the right card, or do this?” I told her, I said, “Ma'am I think you're a victim of some type of scam. Do you mind telling me who you're on the phone with?” “Oh, it's my boyfriend.” The manager overheard me talking. You know what he came up to me and told me?

Don't interfere?

He said, “Mind your business.” What did Freddy do? I called corporate and I said, “Look, you guys are more concerned about making money than someone being a victim of a scam.” About two weeks later, I had to go in there to pick up my medication. Here's a win. They had a nice little beware of scams poster right above those gift cards. The wording is, “If you see something, say something.”

For an example, I always hear, “Did you call the police when this happened?” “No, I didn't want to be bothered, or I figured someone else is.” We can't have that mentality, Chris, in the fraud-fighting world. You have to speak up and say something, because that either could save a life in the human-trafficking world, that could prevent more dollars going through the dirty money system of money laundering, or it could just help that little old lady deplete her Social Security checks that she gets in each month, which is $2000. That's all she has for the month.

Yeah. On the law enforcement side, if they don't know the scope of the problem, it's hard for them to apply the right resources.

A hundred percent. Don't ever have the mentality of, “Well, I'm not going to file this because I don't think it's fraud.” If you have suspicion of activity that appears to be fraud, that's why it's called a suspicious activity report. File it just in case as long as it meets the dollar threshold because you just never know.

As we start to wrap up here, if someone who thinks that they might be a victim of a scam, what should they be doing?

Absolutely. First steps that victims should take is stop all contact with the scammers. Absolutely everything: email, telephone numbers. You're most likely going to have phone numbers from unknown numbers that are going to threaten you. Just block the phone numbers, let them leave you a voice message, and then we're going to come report that to law enforcement, hopefully get the IP addresses or the phone numbers, and hopefully get them charged with communicating threats. Secure all your accounts, change your passwords. Getting multi-factor or secondary factor authentication, where you actually have to type in your password. Then they send you a text message and then you can log in, do all your device scans, like I said. Kitboga's product is amazing. Any type of system that you want to get, I highly recommend that.

Here's the most important thing: do not delete anything. Document, document, document your losses and all communications with the individual because that will help you down the road. If there is a chance of recovery of getting your money back, they are going to want to see the communication. Report it to your bank.

Ic3.gov is a website through the FBI. They track losses. It's data, you report it to them. If it is an internet crime, if it's cryptocurrency, they want to see it. Go as far as if you're a fraud fighter on this call and you work in the vulnerable adult space. “If somebody is over the age of 60 years old, they are considered a vulnerable adult. They do qualify for adult protective services. Social workers, they are a little understaffed, but they do the best they can. If it's urgent, pick up the phone and call them.

Here's the most important thing: seek emotional support. Please don't commit suicide. Please don't go as far as ending your life because there's always somebody to talk to. If it's a friend, a pastor, a church, seriously, email and call me. I'll talk to you for two hours if I have to, because I am a person first. I am a fraud fighter second, but I'm a godly man third. I want to make sure that you get the help you need.

Yeah. I guess the question is, what support groups are there out there for scam and fraud victims?

There's the National Elder Fraud line. Like I said, mostly your local church groups that they have monthly. There's Operation Shamrock. If you are a victim of a cryptocurrency scam, I highly recommend that you do reach out to them. There's your local law enforcement. I have a couple of good fraud friends that do a lot of talking to victims that have been victims of major scams. I'm talking $100,000-$200,000. What I'll say is that no dollar amount is too small to get help. If you've lost money and you're coping with emotional stress, just pick up the phone and call somebody.

Yeah. Talking about it is by far the most important thing. If the person you're talking to isn't supportive, go talk to somebody else.

Absolutely.

Don't let that deter you from working through it. I know that all the victims that I've talked to have said that talking to other people about it and the things they're feeling, the things they're going through, the lack of trust that they feel in themselves, and their ability to evaluate people are all things that they had to work through. It's been difficult, but there are resources and there are people who want to help.

There is. I have one more thing to say. I was asked a question a couple of weeks ago, and it was, “What is the biggest mistake people make after realizing they've been scammed?” This is what I'll say. You stay silent, you have shame, you have fear of telling anyone. This is what I'll say. Silence is what scammers want. Please, the faster you speak up, the more options you'll have to recover and protect yourself.

That truly resonated with me, Chris, because when you have a family member—I remember my grandmother calling me one day. She goes, “Freddy, the IRS just called me.” I said, “OK, what did they say?” “They said I owe $10,000 in back taxes and they wanted me to give.” I said, “Grandma, let me stop you real quick. Did you give them any information?” She goes, “No. I thought they were a joke.”

She's the true Italian grandmother. She knows what I do for a living, and she calls me for everything. “I got this text message. What is this?” “Read it to me.” She goes, “It says my Coinbase account has been compromised.” I said, “Grandma, do you have Coinbase?” She goes, “No.”

I said, “Did someone open it? What's the phone number on the top there?” She's like, “OK, it's a plus sign six three, blah, blah, blah.” I said, “That's something called WhatsApp. It's from an app. They are, a lot of times, grandma, victims of human trafficking that they're sending these text messages out. That's where it starts. When you get these text messages of ‘Hello’ or “I'm sorry, what time is our dinner date tonight,’ people are saying, “wrong number.’ Then they'll get hit back with this beautiful Asian woman. ‘I'm so sorry to bother you.’”

I'm telling you, I've gotten text messages from people. This person's name can be Susan or it can be named Jessica, but that's always the same picture of the beautiful Asian woman. They try to talk to you. Sometimes that loneliness, people talk to them back. That's where those pig butchering scams start.

I'll tell everybody on this call, do not respond to those text messages. Don't give the scammers the energy that they want back. We stop them in our tracks and hopefully they move on to somebody else. We're not at risk anymore.

That's good. Freddy, if people want to find out where to get the guide, where can they find the guide? What's the process that they have to go through to get it?

Yup. They would go to theknoble.com. On the top right, you're going to see something called the member center. You're going to need to go ahead and fill out the information. You're going to be vetted by an individual there just to make sure that we are not passing this out to a fraud that's going to put it on the dark web. I'll say this: it is a free service. It is not a paid subscription. If you are a financial institution, law enforcement, or just a victim of a crime, sign up. We'll be glad to have you.

Awesome. If people want to connect with you, where can they find you?

Go to LinkedIn. Type in Freddy Massimi III. I'm the only one on there. Chris, whenever you do post this podcast, if you want to do a link to my LinkedIn, I would love for people to follow me because being a fraud fighter, we're never done talking. We're always going to learn from individuals. I am a financial crimes technology specialist first, but then there's all these other organizations.

What I'll say is dealing with The Knoble, dealing with a company called the Anti-Human Trafficking Intelligence Initiative, it's a dark watch company, they do a lot of threat analytics with human trafficking. They’re concentrating on building a fraud network. We're also doing a lot with the hospitality industry, making sure that they're not checking in bad actors. It's really good. Some work with charm security. I got a lot going on, but I'll tell you, I truly enjoy it because I want to make a difference in this world. I want to make sure that people are protected, that they're not being taken advantage of, and I'll be glad to talk to anybody.

Awesome. All of the resources that we talked about, we linked to them in the show notes. For listeners, you don't have to be scrambling trying to write things down while you're listening or driving. It's all up on the website. Freddy, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Absolutely. Thank you, Chris, for having me. Glad to be here.

You're welcome.